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for someone to honestly converse and prove one way or the other we must have a common starting place. Can we both agree Jesus or Nazarth existed as a real man (about 2000 years ago give or take) he lived 33 years and his body was gone 3 days after he died. (we can figure out the how and why of his body being gone later maybe they lost it maye the romans destroyed or maybe he really did rise but thats not part of our groundwork.) we can also agree that all the names of the people of notice in his time are actuall people that were alive at the the time he lived. If you can agree with that we can begin...if nto waht do we need to fix. I will give you no holier than thou **** only facts and evidence as if we were merely debating a fact or event. seem fair ennough.

For fact I mean doing it this way, lets say you say Jesus didnt really live, or even die.

I say okay the bible tells us he did so lets prove the bible, we go and look at ROMAN records and see that yes a Man named jesus claiming to be mesiah lived, the pharasies wanted him tried for blashphemy and he was, hewas indeed seen by one ponitus pilot, who did try to get JEsus release by allowing the jews to choose one person for repreve, instead they choose bartle something and pilot wrote it all down, oursite the bible in the roman records. Thus we have proven jesus the Man lived, and he was indeed killed aftre being tortured by being hung on a cross, which the roman soliders wrote about in their reports. So we have many outside source proveing the existrence of a man named jesus claiming to be god. (I know you know this I am just laying groundwork as to how I would like to do this for any proof i try to give you and any you try to say against me)

Lets do this respectfully and have fun. Anyone wishing to add to please make it clear where you get any info, I want it all to be traceable and proovable. We will have to rely on Historical documents as no eye witness are alive from anything we willl try to prove.


What say you Ny/lupus you know what, what is your actual name, I am Chris.

What say you to a small challenge of debate and research.

We may walk away from this still holding fast to our beliefs or maybe you will see something and decide maybe Im right, or maybe we will find an inconsistancy we can prove the bible wrong in and I will walk away from it. I stand by that I if I can find irefutable proof of wrongness and absolute deception (as I can in jehovahs witness, catholoic, and Mormon) then i wll conceed and walk away head held high.

We also need to come to agreement on what version of the bible to use, or versions. As some are meant for christians to study (like paraphrased versions NIV) some are for fun reading by intelligent people like king james, The NAb version is closest to orginal text, I have about 5 differnt ones, if you have acces to only one Ill use that one, and we have the internet, we may have to agree on terms in some place i just don't know till we get there. Okay.??

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

Not to go off topic, but Lup doesn't really care as much as you think he does.

For someone who says we shouldn't continue religious discussions and arguments with Phat, or anyone else, you sure seem to provoke more than anyone else in this sub-forum.

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Was once Nirvanamonkey.

I have proof that Jesus a gorilla mistaken for a human.

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Very true.

But he can't resist.
A quick add in here, history says someone like Caesar existed, and he is mentioned in the Bible a good deal of times. Just by that it should prove the Bible is full of historical fact.

Yeah, historical fact has to mean it's true.

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i know lupus only wants to argue but i would like to move through and see ,if i am wrong where, we just need a common starting point. I state clearly not to argue but to clarify points on both sides. Argueing of intellects just produces more argument, but if we agree on common ground maybe it will go the way side, maybe you will be able to convinve me and phatty we are wrong, or the other way around. I am smart enough to know I don't want ot run around thinking something is true if it can be easily shown its not. If I was saying Humans are reptiles I would want you to go "no man mammals heres why" and such. thats all. Generraly speaking if multiple historical sources show existence of something or someone, then it is considered fact. Anyway...does anyone dissagree witht he orginal post...?

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

*sigh* Nin, from what I can gather, Loop doesn't care about fact, he goes off of his own poinion, which was stated in posts by him. His opinion also changes somewhat daily, so you can't really have a steady argument with him, he will be all over the place, I've seen it in countless discussions.

For you to keep trying to prove him wrong and goad him into somehow going "I love God now, thank you Nin." is just stupid at best. I have met people like him, and I myself can see similar quilities in myself, and I know firsthand that people like Loop will never concede to what anyone other than himself has to say. He is a Lupusist.

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"Servants of the fallen
Fight to pave the way
For their savior's calling
On this wicked day.

Through a veil of madness
With a vicious blade
One man rises up
Standing in their way

It's time for your reckoning"

Dream Theater - "In The Presence Of Enemies - Part II"

I sorta thought it would be a fun conversation without argueing, to flesh out different dissagreements with anyone, but if no one wants too, I got no issue with droppig the thread. its okay with me. I had no intentions, I think I mentioned it many times, of goading or argueing, just fleshing out facts but as you say some people flip flop and don't hold true to an idea so yeah i'll let it drop. laters.

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

I agree with that statement. I have seen Lupus carry on this argument for 4 years, I know it well now. He cannot be convinced, and will not be convinced.
I think we need to let this one pass.

agreed, closing....

and for future reference Nin, Don't prod him. Let him do the prodding.

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"Servants of the fallen
Fight to pave the way
For their savior's calling
On this wicked day.

Through a veil of madness
With a vicious blade
One man rises up
Standing in their way

It's time for your reckoning"

Dream Theater - "In The Presence Of Enemies - Part II"