NinPlayBox

BTW Phatty you do a great Job defendeing your faith in the "link Lupus put up" You were right a lot but I have a lot of experience in Lupus type charaters (haveing been one till I was 20) so you were a little out of your depth on a few. Its easy to go around the net find a lot of questions(he obviously doesn't come up with them on his own) and ask a believer. I Devote my self to Two aspect of My faith more than any toher. The end times(utterly fasionating) and Apologetics (defense of the Faith) I have lots of answers to His questions I'll Write them up and post them for you and him. THey are typical make the believer doubt questions and you are strong well done.

Lupus- What about the one if God can do anything can he make a rock he can't move.

Don't tell me you think thats a valid question lol

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

Lupus

See, no sense of humour.
Actually, I DID come up with those questions on my own. I also applaud your faith in Phatty's... faith. So you think that once all humans are dead, everyone's admitted into this celestial playfield where stars simply don't explode?
Tell me why it ISN'T.

NinPlayBox

beacause no where in the bible does it say God can do anything. Actually there are things God can not do.

1. God cannot break a promise, i.e. he promised never to flood the world after the Flood (Noahs ark history)

2. God CANNOT be in the presence sin, hence the father why have you forsaken me, god looked away ffrom Christ on the cross because Christ bore all the sins of the world upon him, and God CANNOT be in the presence of sin. You claim in a few places Phatty doesn't know the bible,indicating you in fact do if you did then you would know the question makes no sense beacause there are things god cannot do, so saying if god can do anything makes the question invalid.

No not once all humans are dea,, when The Born again believers are dead they will be in heaven, to be in god's glory forever, there is no actual description of heaven aside from it is greater than you can imagine. The rest of humans who CHOOSE not to believe in god will be in hell, only described as a place without god knowing fully of god and wwanting only to be iwth him and never getting it. THE KNOWLEDGE of KNowing God and KNOWING you choose wrong. Thats hell, the whole burning thing was made up by an artist along time ago. The Gnashing of teeth and pain comes from the bible. The fiery lake and such is for the Devil Lucifer himself, one whom sought to have gods glory and failed,,,

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

Lupus

1) Then certain faithful people should stop spouting the omnipotent garbage then.

2) I don't KNOW that there's a God and just choose to ignore it. You can't KNOW there IS a God because that negates the necessity of Faith.

I also find a perverse pleasure in the knowledge that this God, apparent knower of all, creates Lucifer who turned against him. If he knew he'd do it why create him? Ooh, once you open the Omniscient can of worms you're in a whole heap of shit.

NinPlayBox

1) being Omniscient doewsn't mean you can do anything... Comeone your smart it means the capacity to know everything infinitely.

2) Faith isn't negated by Knowledged how stupid a comment is that. I have faith in math... I know 1+1 = 2 its that simple. I have faith in god because I know for a fact he is there.

3) the creation of Lucifer was to serve a purpose. Knowing how all things would end Lucifer is a key figure in testing Christians Faith. He doesn't care about non believers as long as they remain non-believer. The greatest achievment that Lucifer ever did was convince the world(i.e. people like you) He doesn't exist. His goal is that people would not worship GOd. He cares not if its him or nothing they turn to.

You arguments are getting weaker. Ill post answers to your questions later...today.

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

Tim

... No, just no. I would suggest that you read the new testament please please do. A strict view of literally taking Paul (he does most of the description of the afterlife in the NT) doesn't have any gnashing of teeth or shit. Hell is simply the absence of God those who don't believe are not resurrected, that's it.

I personally don't see it as that simple but meh.

You contradicted yourself right there. The whole point in faith is that you don't know, you have to take that final step and believe. There is no faith if you can know it.

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SAPPHIRERUBY

Looks like Loop has a new BFF. Very sweet.

I have total faith, but to Tim's point, faith is believing in something that you can not see or necessarily prove. That is faith by definition. I CHOOSE to believe and I CHOOSE to believe the teachings of Christianity to be FACT, but I certainly can not prove this. If I could, it would be science, not religion.

NinPlayBox

What Is Faith ?
faith:defined as

confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, an idea, or a thing.

loyalty or allegiance to a person or thing; esp. fidelity to a promise.

the theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.

Nothing about lack of proof.>?
Why must faith not be knowledge. I have faith that the earth moves around the sun, because I know for a fact it is that way.

What if you can prove things from the bible, would that mean I have no faith in them. many things cann be proven in the Bible as fact, so I am only faithful to the ones people think can't be proven.

I have faith in My father because I know for a fact he is here.

Faith does not have to be belief without proof.

I am faithful to my wife, she has faith in me.

intresting thoughts....

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

NinPlayBox

No, just no. I would suggest that you read the new testament please please do. A strict view of literally taking Paul (he does most of the description of the afterlife in the NT) doesn't have any gnashing of teeth or shit. Hell is simply the absence of God those who don't believe are not resurrected, that's it.

I personally don't see it as that simple but meh.

The new teastament does indeed talk of the gnashing of teeth and weeping... Here

There are several passages that refer to “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” In each of those passages (Matthew 8:12; 13:42,50; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30; Luke 13:28) that is to be the fate of those who are outside of heaven, in outer darkness, and/or in “the furnace of fire.” The weeping part is pretty clear. If God shall “wipe away all tears” (Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 21:4) from those around his throne (the saved/the church), then it makes sense that those who are not among the saved and away from the presence of God would be weeping.

So, what is “gnashing of teeth?” There is a medical condition called “bruxism,” in which people grind their teeth, often while asleep. The name of that condition comes from the Greek word that is here translated as “gnashing.” Some scholars say that it is from a word that means “to bite” and describes the snarling of a wild animal as it attacks. The idea, then is that those who are apart from God attack each other and try to tear each other, much like a pack of hyenas fighting over a carcass. Since apart from God there is no good, then after the judgement the souls of the damned will, unsuccessfully, try to destroy each other; without goodness there is just hatred and envy. We can even see this to a certain extent today. Those who do not live by God’s principles bite and tear each other on the way to the top, in business or any other aspect of life. Those who live according to God’s way help others, rather than tearing them down.


Matthew and Luke both being NT, along with Rev (pauls writing) just an FYI. I will never claim to know all the bible but I am more than willing to check.

The seperation from god part yes...and the NT = gnashing of teeth, ... Revelation 18:15

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

Tim

Most scholars don't believe that Revelation was written by Paul and obviously neither were Matthew and Luke.

Book of Revelation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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NinPlayBox

aside from who wrote what THE TEETH WERE IN THE NEW TEST. I don't even want to get in the debate of who wrote what when and where. Its just not good and doesn't matter if you don't believe in it to begin with. Its just a spot to argue.

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Chrales Darwin- “ to suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.

The Dudemeister

I feel like marrying my best freind just to shit in the open mouth of christianity. (FYI: I am a guy.)

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"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool, or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For as a wounded man shall say to his assailant: 'If I live, I will kill you; If I die, you are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honor.

Lupus

I SAID omnipotent. Omniscient came into play with #3 when we talked about future events after Lucifer's creation.

pwnt.
See Tim's comment above.


To put it mildly, I don't care about Lucifer. Nor do I care about God.
That said, at least he's actually put some effort into it by convincing us all he's not real. God's just rested on his laurels and done nothing of notice... apart from have his son, or some part of himself, tortured on a cross.

Really? Who told you that? Your dreaded Science, that anti-God organisation populated by Devil-lovers and other lesser heathens?
Just think, only a few years ago you would've been burnt, drowned, or otherwise done in by religious types for even suggesting such a barmy notion; that humans, God's most favoured creation, are NOT at the centre of the universe? Heresy!

The Dudemeister

It is a well known psuedo-fact that Lucifer was god's right hand man in heaven, and he was also the angel in charge of all knowledge in the entirety of heaven. Also, i think he was an angel of wisdom too, i'm not quite sure on that one. He was banished from heaven for going against god. Since he were the angel of knowledge and wisdom, would that have not been the most smart and wise thing to do? If it is widely acknowledged that Lucy was this all knowing and wise, on par with the almighty OG himself, would it not in turn be wise to follow his exapmle? He himself was granted said powers of wisdom and knowledge by god, so it must be true that he thought as god did. The only question left to contemplate is this:

Was he right? Did he go against god because god was the one in the wrong? Was god doing good when he banished Lucifer? Was Lucifer doing good when he went against god? Why did he go against god? Why did god fear his uprising so much? Lucifer's reasoning must have been great, for he amassed an army of angels.








P.S. Lucifer was also the most beautiful creature ever created by god. I'm jealous.

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"Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool, or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For as a wounded man shall say to his assailant: 'If I live, I will kill you; If I die, you are forgiven.' Such is the rule of honor.

Lupus

I'd just like some snazzy wings, though I'd prefer black to white.

Tim

My point was that the majority of it says that. You can take bits from the bible to prove anything. I'm sure Lupus in the past has used Bible quotes to show that it's a book that preaches hate and discrimination, just as you can take bits that say what you want it to say. Take it in context, take it as a whole.

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